In this episode, we talk with Marty Groover, Partner and CTO in the Industry 4.0 practice of C5MI and author of Speed of Advance. Listen in to learn how your organization can use technology to forge your own pathway to Industry 4.0.
Podcast Transcript:
Marty Groover:
One of the jobs I had was as a C5I officer over an aircraft carrier straight group. My job was to make all those ships work, talk together, communicate, all their links work. As I retired, I went to work for Caterpillar, and I was a manufacturer engineer, then I was a plant manager. We used SAP quite a bit in the systems, ERP systems. One of the things we saw, we didn’t have real time data, but if we could create a common operational picture like we had in the military to show our day to day operations, logistics, manufacturing, all of that, and solve it in a moment, that we got a lot better results. So, we believed in it so much after 12 years at Caterpillar, we set out on our own, started this company.
Speaker 2:
Welcome to the Sound of Automation, brought to you by Clayton & McKervey, CPAs for growth driven businesses.
Bryan Powrozek:
Hello and welcome to the Sound of Automation. I am Bryan Powrozek with Clayton & McKervey. Joining me today is Marty Groover of C5MI. Marty, how are you today?
Marty Groover:
Doing well. Thanks for having me on, Bryan.
Bryan Powrozek:
Excellent. Well, I guess to kind of kick things off here, if you wouldn’t mind giving the listeners a little bit of your background, maybe tell them a bit about C5MI and what they do.
Marty Groover:
Sure, absolutely. Marty Groover, retired naval officer. Currently, I’m the partner and CTO for a company called C5MI. I’ll explain what that stands for in a second. But 21 years in the Navy, responsible for a lot of automated equipment, weapon systems, missile systems. I did a lot of maintenance, but also managing databases, computers and all that. While I was in, one of the jobs I had was as a C5I officer over an aircraft carrier strike group. My job was to make all those ships work, talk together, communicate, all their links work, and that’s where the C5I comes from. In the Navy, it stands for command, control, computers, communication, collaboration, intelligence.
Then as I retired, I went to work for Caterpillar, and I was a manufacturing engineer, then I was a plant manager. We used SAP quite a bit in the systems, ERP systems. One of the things we saw is we didn’t have realtime data, and we really went live in a factory with SAP and started driving realtime updates, realtime measurements of quality, things like that, and we started getting the genesis of starting this company. C5MI stands for Management Insights. What we knew is if we could create a common operational picture like we had in the military to show our day to day operations, logistics, manufacturing, all of that, and solve it in the moment, that we got a lot better results. We believed in it so much after 12 years at Caterpillar, we set out on our own, started this company.
Bryan Powrozek:
Excellent. I think that that’s a fairly common issue that a lot of business owners, whether you’re talking small business, large business, I mean, they all run into that problem, especially these days where it’s almost information overload, right? You’ve got so much data surrounding you on your operations and your financial department that it can be very difficult for business owners of any size to make sense of all that, pull it together in something that’s useful and really helps them manage your business. That’s really the mission of C5MI, right? Is to help the business owners get that information in one place where they can use it to make qualified decisions.
Marty Groover:
Absolutely. We have this maturity model that goes all the way from digital core, which is critical to building that transactional engine, all the way up through visibility, adaptability, and then getting predictive, because we’ve got the data, we trust data, it’s contextualized, we’ve got the right analytics, it’s live, one single version of the truth. Then we can start getting predictive. Then ultimately where we want to go is to automate things, take the man out of the loop like we did in the military. I can go in a little deeper detail, if you’re interested, about how we won the Cold War on that. We took the man out of the loop because air warfare was too fast, and humans could not manage the speed of air warfare anymore at the end of the sixties, early seventies, so they had to build this new Aegis weapon system, which I was the chief engineer of on an Aegis cruiser.
That was the first time that they really just built a weapon system without a ships’ hull. There’s a building in New Jersey that looks like a ship in Morristown that was actually where they built the first Aegis weapon system. But that system was truly live, taking the man out of the loop, only using the human where you needed him, and everything else was automated. In the factory, we’re like, “Wow, why can I have that?” And I call myself Marty McFly in the book because I seen the future and I wanted it. Once I started learning how to use SAP and get good with that, we started building our own COPs and integrated things. That’s really where the genesis of what we provide our customers comes from, and we know if we can help them, it’s a long journey, get there, if we get that digital core right and then get that system on top of it, measuring it, condition based monitoring it, we can have a lot better business results and ultimately take people out of some grunge work.
Bryan Powrozek:
Exactly. Well, there’s so much talk right now, especially coming out of the pandemic and businesses focused on becoming industry 4.0, updating their operations, but that data element of this really becomes a core piece of what really separates industry 4.0, is to have all that information to be able to understand all the different levers you can pull and how they impact your production, how they impact your business, and then using that data to then make the educated decision. You mentioned it in terms of the theater of war and trying to keep up with everything changing there. You can draw that exact same parallel to what business owners are seeing right now with increased competition for employees and trying to really allocate your capital to the right improvement projects that are going to help your business run better and operate more effectively. It’s really just taking those lessons you learn there and applying them to a whole new problem set, if you will.
Marty Groover:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. The key is, and this is what this book’s about this, if somebody’s looking for, “Hey how do I do industry 4.0?” It’s really not about that, but it is how to think about how are you going to converge people, process and technology? And don’t lead with technology, because there’s no silver bullets there. This is hard stuff, and every business is different, but they’re all the same too. Somehow you’ve got to codify process, have people understand how to do it, automate it as much as possible, and then just use the right amount of technology where it’s not overburdening and it compliments the process, and that’s the key.
Sometimes people want to go right to the technology because that’s the easy thing, and then they go out and buy best of breed and then they’re disappointed when they don’t get the results, but what were you trying to do with it? What capabilities, which is what the Navy figured out, “Hey, they didn’t say, “I wanted a spy one radar. They said I need to be able to track this many contacts at one time. I need to be able to do these statements of capabilities.” That’s how the system was built. It’s the same with the industry 4.0. It’s what do you need process-wise to improve your business?
Bryan Powrozek:
You touch on an area that I think is probably beyond… you’ve got all the technological challenges of what system are you going to put in place, what technology are you going to implement when it comes to talking about 4.0, but in my experience working with business owners, and I’ll speak specifically to the small, the mid size companies, I think there’s an even bigger challenge of what exactly does industry 4.0 mean, and why should I be concerned about it? Because business owners go through this endless wave of, “Okay, this is the hot new topic that people are focused on, and this is the thing they’re going to be having to deal with,” and it sounds like as you read through things, industry 4.0 is that next wave that’s crashing on the shore that everyone feels they’re going to have to deal with.
But as you’re looking at this from the other side, as a person that understands some of these challenges and what business owners might want to think about, what are some of the reasons why you feel that business owners need to look at industry 4.0 maybe a little differently in terms of the why they want to do it as opposed to just following the crowd and saying, “Yeah, we’re going to get industry 4.0 just like everybody else is.”
Marty Groover:
Yeah, that’s a great statement, because there’s a lot of buzzword bingo going on about industry 4.0, digital transformation. Let’s face it, we’ve been digital since the eighties. What’s happening right now is we’re at the end of the silicon age, and you can even see in the Bureau of Labor statistics, I got a chart in my book, but you can look it up online, it’s really easy to look up multifactorial productivity. Right now I think incrementally with the technology we have and everything that we’ve done up to this date, we’re about as good as we’re going to get, unless you start leveraging high speed data, automating things, because we need exponential improvements in productivity to really overcome the inflation we’re feeling right now.
If you look at the late seventies, the same thing happened there. Inflation was high, but that’s really when the PC age kicked off. Then you can see when you look through those years, all those years of productivity gains, how it overcome the inflation that we are feeling. I think looking at labor issues that we have right now, everybody’s worried about is automation going to take over people’s jobs? Heck, there’s over a million, 2 million jobs, depending on where you look, that aren’t being filled in manufacturing right now. There’s going to have to be a reckoning to that. These tools can automate a lot of things, but make people’s jobs easier and empower them. I think going forward, the skills needed are going to be different. You’re going to have operator technicians and manufacturing instead of operators and technicians, so you’re going to have to figure out how this stuff works better and tells the human, “Hey, this is what you need to do to fix it.” More prescriptive, so to speak.
Bryan Powrozek:
Yep, exactly. Well, that’s this understanding of how to identify ways to improve your business and improve things. That’s part of the reason that prompted you, you’ve referenced it a couple times here, but you wrote a book called Speed of Advance, where you take some of the lessons you learned from your time in the military and have developed a, I don’t know if you’d call it a playbook or some recommendations as to how to use those lessons to manage your business, I guess what really motivated you to write that book?
Marty Groover:
There’s things you just have to do, and I guess in the back of my mind, I kept seeing it over and over. I used everything I learned in the Navy. I said, “Wow, I can’t believe we were that far ahead.” But it took me a while to start connecting to dots, like, “This was this.” It wasn’t called a cloud, it was called a COP, a common operational picture, all the militaries have it. It wasn’t the same terms, but when I started looking at what I was doing in manufacturing, what I needed to do, it was the same thing that I already had in the military where it automatically ran test and my radar system would automatically self heal, and it would tell the operator where to go to fix it. That’s what we needed. That’s what I needed on my manufacturing machines, on my shop floor and things like that.
I watched companies every time I went there to struggle, like, “How do I do this? What should I be thinking of?” And I knew with the experience that I had and things that I had done, and I had actually done these things, I actually improved my quality safety, so it’s not theory, I used the same methodology that I did in the military, and I was successful at Caterpillar for 12 and a half years as a factory manager all the way up to being globally deploying ERP systems.
So, then I knew there was something there, and I just wanted to write this book to help people try to understand it, because it is very complex. I tested on my mom, so I asked my mom to, “I need you to read this because I’m so far in the weeds sometimes.” She goes, “Yeah, it’s hard for me to understand what you do.” I said, “Read this book for me, the manuscript, and tell me if it makes sense.” She said, “Yeah, it really made sense. It was a good read.” So, I knew I’d written it at a level to provide understanding, not to be technical how to do it
Bryan Powrozek:
Yep. Well, and it’s funny because I see that in working with my client base, and I spend all day in the world of finance and accounting, reading financial things, looking at tax returns, doing all this stuff, so oftentimes I got to pull up when I’m having conversations with clients and find, “Okay, what’s the key point I’m trying to convey across?” I don’t need to give them the Internal Revenue Code section or the US gap statement that addresses the particular question. It’s take that information, put it into some sort of verbiage that makes sense for them that they can use to then help improve their business and not get too far into the weeds, as you say. Well, let’s jump into a couple of the key points from your book, because I did a lot of the things that you and I discussed going into this. Really, let’s start off with chapter one. You called it mission first, people always. I guess explain a little bit about what that means to you in terms of how companies address some of these challenges.
Marty Groover:
I’m a big Simon Sinek fan, so the golden circle for me, the why is the mission, and you’ve got to understand that first. I’ll just use CNC operator, let’s just say I take a CNC operator, I teach you how to push the buttons on the machine, they can do that. But if they don’t understand what they’re doing and how that machine’s cutting and why it needs to be this way and the feed rates and all that stuff and what are we trying to make, what’s the goal of it and how important their role is in it, you can get results, but they’re not the same. A lot of people say, “It must have been great being an officer in the military. You just tell people to do things, they just did it.” I said, “No, people in the military are no different than regular people. They still need to understand the why,” and the mission is why. Then if you take care of the people, the people take care of you.
That to me is the most important thing, whether you’re in the military or in your manufacturing, whatever role, those people are critical to your business. But, boy, if they understand why they’re doing it and you give them a good set of standard work and they understand how to do their job, one, they’re empowered to help you run your business better, you get better results, but they’re also more engaged people, and you see those results in your business. Everybody wants to complain about millennials, but I think they’re a great workforce, and if they understand why they’re doing what they’re doing, I’ve just seen results that then are exponential out of them when given the right tools.
Bryan Powrozek:
Yeah. I’ve seen that in my own career, kind of back from my manufacturing days, is that, yeah, if I walked into a plant and you had the operators, the folks working on the line, and if you treated them as just another resource, “Hey, you go here, you press this button eight hours a day, and then that’s the end of it,” you’re going to get exactly that, right? People on the manufacturing side, we get frustrated. It’s like, “Well, we produced all these bad parts, why didn’t the operator catch this?” It’s like, well, it’s the expectation you set for them.
The expectation was I hit this button eight hours a day and that’s it, versus you go into another plant and you see that the team is engaged and they’re part of the group that’s developing the design of the line and they can take some of those things they’ve learned on other processes and make recommendations, then they know what to look for, even though their job may still be pressing this button to rivet these two parts together, they start to notice that, “Hey, the purpose of this operation is to do X, and if it’s not doing X, I’m going to raise my hand and say, “Hey, we’ve got a problem,” before I produce thousands of bad parts. So, I think it’s a very important lesson for people to take in as they’re trying to implement some of these improvements in their plan.
Marty Groover:
Yeah, you’ll appreciate this as accountant. I took my business resource manager and I said, “I want you to implement all hands training this month. I want you to explain how our net present cost of our parts are made up and the segments of them and how we get paid for the parts,” because nobody ever explained it to the people on the shop floor. But I said, “Every one of these parts that don’t go out the right door, they go out the wrong door, which is the back door, the scrap peak.”
Bryan Powrozek:
Yep.
Marty Groover:
And we made very expensive parts made out a very expensive steel. I said, “That takes away money that I have for this factory to do stuff for you. I don’t get an allowance from Caterpillar to run this place, and if I don’t make good quality, it’s okay.” It was amazing when we did that. Then we had gain sharing metrics, so we shared our gains with them and they understood their goals, and they understood how to see their goals because we automated the quality stuff so they could see the root causes. Then we gave them rewards. When they solved a hard quality problem, we took our quality from 800 PPM down to 57, which is almost unheard of in hard turned carburized metal. Yeah.
Bryan Powrozek:
Yeah. No, that’s fantastic. I guess moving on to another phrase from your book or a term that you use, which I think you brought from your military days, what exactly is meant by command by negation?
Marty Groover:
Command by negation is probably one of the most powerful tools we have in our military. United States military is probably the best at command by negation. What it means is we already have expectations of what we expect out of the people that work for us that are doing the missions without… because we have enlisted and junior officers, they have to execute very complex missions, so we have very good processes and training to train them. Then the expectation is command by negation. If this and this and this happens, you don’t ask, this is what you do. You just react, and now you’ve reduced the decision cycle and then the expected actions are going to happen the way you expect them, because you train them to them.
This is the beauty, I use this in manufacturing, is I gave the power to team leads and people on the shop floor to say, “If this and this and this happens, I don’t want you to ask what to do to fix it. You fix it and you do it and you start running a business.” We push running a business down to a lower level. When leaders… this is the worst thing that can happen in a business, and I’m sure you’ve seen it, when leaders are working two levels down instead of two levels up, every leader, every manager, supervisor should be working at least one or two levels up for the help of the organization so they can learn the next role. If they’re working two levels down because they haven’t empowered that level down to execute the mission without their constant supervision, and sometimes that doesn’t feel comfortable, like, “Well, I’m the supervisor. I’m supposed to be supervising them,” there’s a lot of things that can be done. So, the command by negation is really an empowerment tool, but it also improves productivity and people understanding the mission.
Bryan Powrozek:
Yeah. Whether you’re talking about people working a couple levels beneath their responsibility there, or even back to your first example where you’re talking about the scrap and stuff like that, that is something I’ve seen, whether it was my time working in manufacturing, my time here working with business owners, is that those unintended consequences, the uncaptured cost of, well, yeah, anytime something happens on the line, they pull you in to decide what needs to happen to fix it. Yeah, you address the issue, you move on and you keep going, but what weren’t you doing in that, even if it’s a half hour, there’s something else you could have been doing that was of higher value, as well as, and I think that this is something as the workforce continues to contract as boomers are leaving the workforce, to be able to prepare, and you use the term empower your employees to start working above their role, now you’ve got the opportunity to bring them up and bring somebody else into back fill beneath them, and now you’re pushing yourself forward versus rather trying to pull people through the organization.
That is a huge lesson that we talk about with our clients, and even internally within a CPA firm, professional services firm, we see the same need that anything you can do to delegate and help bring the staff up is just going to then help you focus on the right things that you should be working on or stretch to the things you’re going to need to do when you make the next step within the organization.
Marty Groover:
Well, and I think with the digital tools that we have today, you can create digital guardrails that can have condition based levels of notification, and so that if something gets to a certain level, you’re notified immediately when it gets out of the control limits that you want to provide to the people at the lower level. But with these tools, you can allow them to work at that level and manage it, and then you’re not going to find out, “I had this go this bad. How did I go this long without somebody notifying me?” But then if they can solve these problems and have a way to capture root cause analytics so that there’s a constant continual improvement process for any defects, whether they be process or product, it’s just amazing how you empower teams to just solve their own problems, and pretty soon they’re running your business and you’re going to get better results that way anyway.
Bryan Powrozek:
Yep, great. Exactly. Another topic from your book that I think goes hand in hand with that is addressing the silos that occur within businesses. I mean, I think that that was the more traditional business structure, right? You’ve got your operations team, your quality team, your finance and accounting organization, your engineering team, whatever it might be, but talk about, in your experience, why some of those silos become so damaging to a company’s plans and goals to try and improve into industry 4.0.
Marty Groover:
Yeah. Everything has to work together for industry 4.0 to work, and that’s the way the warfare systems had to work. It wasn’t like, “Oh, well, the surface warfare group’s doing their job,” or the air warfare, it was one system, one fight. That’s the way we kind of approached it when I went to Caterpillar. I mean, I was amazed at when I first became a manufacturing engineer, all the finger pointing. One day I was in a meeting with very senior people, I said, “Does it really matter which group’s fault it is?” I said, “Yes, we got to solve the problem, but at the end of the day, did we meet our customers expectations?” I said, “Isn’t that the most important thing instead of trying to figure out whose fault it is?”
That day, senior vice president come over to me and said, “I really love the way you talk about it.” I said, “Well, I’m just sick of the way people treat each other here, trying to figure out to blame for it instead of, “Hey…” like Jocko Willink says, I love Jocko Willink if you’ve never read Extreme Ownership, he says, “Oh, something went bad? Good, now I know it. Now, what do I do to fix it?” If you change your mentality that way, it’s just amazing how much better business outcomes you have, because it’s not about those silos. What I used to tell my people in my factory, I said, “You could be the best logistics person in the world, the best manufacturing engineer, the best maintenance person, but if we don’t deliver our quality parts on time under the cost we said, all they see is our factory failed. That’s it. There’s nobody that survives, like, “Oh, well, it’s not your fault.” It’s a team, guys, and that’s the way supply chains have to work. That’s why they call them chains. It’s one chain.”
Bryan Powrozek:
Yeah, I think that was probably one of the more impactful concepts I learned when I was getting my Six Sigma Green Belt certification was this idea of process sub optimization. Right? That, “Okay, maybe my step in the process is optimized and we’re completing that part as efficiently and optimally as possible, but if that process then makes every other step in the process inefficient, okay, that’s great, You’re getting stuff off your plate as quickly as possible, but now we’ve just increased the time it takes to go through every other part of the process. Having your process on its own the most optimized isn’t necessarily what’s best for the entire chain, as you mentioned. That is something that we oftentimes have conversations with.
I’ll get questions from clients who are implementing an ERP system or putting in some new type of software, and they’ll go, “Well, what should I do in terms of setting this aspect of it up?” It’s like, “Well, it depends. Let’s talk about how your whole business operates first, then we can decide,” because I don’t want to go in and say, “Well, this is the way every other system integrator sets up their ERP system,” only to find out there’s something unique about the way you operate that then throws that completely out the window.
Marty Groover:
Wow. So true.
Bryan Powrozek:
Bringing down those silos is critical.
Marty Groover:
Yeah. I was a certified black belt, and one of the things, it was amazing how many times I had to teach this lesson, a roll and throughput yield, but it’s amazing when you look at, “Hey, how many steps are in your process?” I said, “Is 96% good? Would you be happy if you were 96% successful?” Whatever your quality. I said, “But if you hit your times all at 96%, the poor people at the end,” which was me in assembly, I said, “We’re at like 68% on time delivery because everybody else didn’t hit their time in the time that we have to build this product.” Six Sigma is very powerful. SCOR, supply chain operational reference too is a very powerful thing. Source, make, deliver. You can say any business does that, now you can quit thinking you’re special and figure out how you’re going to make it all work together.
Bryan Powrozek:
Yep, exactly. Well, the last topic that you cover in your book that I want to hit on, because I think it’s just a good lesson for anybody, regardless of whether you’re trying to get to industry 4.0 or not, but this idea of, and I think some companies pay lip service to this, other ones embrace it, but the idea of creating learning cultures is, in my mind, going to be one of the most critical things for any organization going forward, because it’s like Moore’s law with electronics, the pace of change is just going to continue to grow exponentially, and you’re not going to be able to just graduate with a four year degree and do that for 40 years and then retire, because things are changing so quickly. So, what advice do you have in your book about creating learning cultures within organizations?
Marty Groover:
Again, the Navy’s amazing on that, because we have such a high rate of turnover in the military that everybody has to be a trainer, from the captain of the ship all the way down. Everybody is training somebody. That’s how we do on the job training, but also formal training. Officers have to create training syllabuses and give training to other officers, even though we’ve done this before. Another thing that we do every time before we do a major exercise, a gun shoot, pulling into port, we do a pre-brief, we do our homework. Then when we get done with it, we take notes and we have a post brief. We say, “What didn’t go right? What could have went better?” And we incorporate those lessons learned, we call them lessons applied, all the time. That’s amazing, because when you get in that culture, you don’t pat yourself on a back. You always look with a critical eye. “I could have done this better.” “How do we do this better?” “That could have cost somebody’s life. We got lucky there.”
I brought that to Caterpillar. I was able to keep my factory… they went almost three years without a recorded injury, which is almost unheard of, especially when we’re handling 20 pound parts, but it was because every time we had a near miss we were learning, and, “What do we got to do different? Let’s go out and look at the area. How do we change this? What do we do to make it better?” And once people know that you’re serious about that and that’s the way you do business, it’s amazing to watch that. It’s like a flywheel effect on everything we do, everything you do. Safety is a great way to get people focused on that to become a learning organization, and then that bleeds right over into quality and everything else. But you can always hang your hat on safety, and it’s hard for people to argue with that. I’d always say, “I want everybody to go home safe. I want you to go home to your family safe every day. I take it personal,” and it’s amazing how you can get people to get on board with that methodology.
Bryan Powrozek:
Yeah. One of the other things, I had a boss that I worked with back in the day, and another one of his areas a lot of folks, I think most people tend to lose sight of is when you’re doing those lessons learned type analyses or the postmortem of a problem that you encountered in the business, I think that’s great and something everybody should do, but he was also a big proponent of let’s also turn that same focus on the jobs that went really well. Right? If you got a job that came in 10% under budget and ahead of deadline, let’s go through and let’s look at that and say, “Hey, what about that job made it so successful so we can take whatever we did well there and try and apply that to the other jobs?” So, it’s important to look at the ones that don’t go well and identify issues within your process, but then you can also find some good examples of things you should continue doing to really build upon that momentum.
Marty Groover:
Absolutely. That was another thing that we always used to do too when we did big exercises, we’d do international military exercises. That was the point. We had to make formal lessons learned. To your point, we put in what went well too and found the charts here. These charts are really good. So, next time, somebody doesn’t have to maybe find all that stuff themselves, they can have those insights to get a quicker uptake on how to do something. So, that’s a great point.
Bryan Powrozek:
Excellent, excellent. Well, Marty, I mean, we could probably record a couple episodes just going through your book here. So, if people are interested, I’m assuming they can get the book at pretty much every major outlet, Amazon, places like that?
Marty Groover:
Absolutely. It’s on Amazon. It was a Wall Street Journal bestseller. Currently, I just picked my voice for my audio book, so it’ll take a couple of months to get that done. But a audio book will be coming out also on it.
Bryan Powrozek:
Oh, fantastic. I guess if there’s anything that people heard during the course of this conversation that they wanted to reach out to you, or maybe they’re in need of C5MI’s services, what’s the best way for people to get ahold of you?
Marty Groover:
Yes. We have a website, c5mi.com, and then I also have my own speed of advance, depending on what type of consultant you want, if you just want consulting on the book, I have a place where you can drop a note in there. My email’s in there also. So many different ways to get ahold of us. But, yeah, C5MI, we have a maturity model. There’s a survey, just a quick 18 question survey on there. If you want to see where you’re at in that maturity curve, it kind of helps people understand where they’re at in the roadmap and helps us identify opportunities for helping them, because It’s not a linear journey, for sure. There’s a lot of things that can be done over time, and build that single version of the truth, that common operational picture that we talk about.
Bryan Powrozek:
Excellent. Well, Marty, I really appreciate you coming on today, and I found the conversation very insightful, so hopefully the listeners did as well. Thanks again, and we’ll speak to you again soon.
Marty Groover:
Yeah. Thanks a lot, Bryan. Appreciate it.
Bryan Powrozek:
Take care.
Speaker 2:
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